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December 13, 2009

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dave

no probs dg ,just pulling your leg mate
its good you feel so passionate about the subject.

DG

Don't worry dave, I only attack arguments and reasoning - don't mistake passion for aggression :)

Paul Flynn

Gar Hywel, my conscience is happily unburdened. I opposed the Iraq War and published my letters to Blair on this website in 2003.

Like many others I forecast an increase in terrorism because of our involvement in the Iraq and Helmand wars.
But why should all Labour MPs and voters feel guilty. All the Tories except 6 voted for the war. 139 Labour MPs voted against. I was one of them.

dave

wow there's some pent up aggression released.
take a chill pill guy your heading for a heart attack.

glad you dont drive you would end up road raging someone and probably beat them to death

DG

"If you use petrol in your car or central heating, you are partly to blame for the war. If you voted for the Labor govt, in 1997 you are partly responsible for war in Iraq and Afghan.."

"If you voted against then you may rightly have a clear conscience."

So, if you're a pleb who owns a car and voted Labour in 1997, you're partly responsible; but if you're a car-owning, Labour voting cabinet minister or MP who voted against the war, you get to have a clear conscience?

I think there are probably quite a few car-owning, Labour 1997-voting anti-war protesters who would take exception to that line of reasoning. Especially since a large part of their umbrage was that the British public had absolutely no say in the matter.

It's all too freakin' easy to blame those without power. What happened to "with great power comes great responsibility?" These days it seems that "With great power comes great PR" - perfect for helping you duck that messy "responsibility" stuff.

Adam

Whether that is the case or not Kay Tie, there is a problem when the very wealthy can simply buy an election result. You said so yourself earlier.

'The trade unions are using money that the UK Government took from me, Lord Ashcroft and all other tax payers.'

I am sure you can expand on this and compare the two? It seems to me that you are defensive of Lord Ashcroft.

Kay Tie

"So that excludes Lord Ashcroft because he (apparently) does not pay tax."

Even if he is domiciled abroad, tax law requires UK tax paid on money remitted to the UK. So anything he brings in to donate will have tax paid on it. From what I can gather, the donations he makes are from UK companies he owns - that will have paid UK corporation tax.

The big difference with Lord Ashcroft and the trade unions is that Lord Ashcroft is using his own money. The trade unions are using money that the UK Government took from me, Lord Ashcroft and all other tax payers.

Paul Flynn

"tax-payers should not be funding political campaigning.' says KayTie. So that excludes Lord Ashcroft because he (apparently) does not pay tax.

dave

Professor Philippe Sands, a leading international lawyer, said Blair's comments left him open to legal action.

lawyers for Saddam Hussein's jailed former deputy prime minister, Tareq Aziz, have already written to Britain's top legal adviser asking permission to prosecute Blair for war crimes on the basis of his remarks.

 Patrick

Gar Hywel
"On the subject of Blair and his "lies", leadership is not an easy thing. How many Brits died in 09/11? 150? He had a responsibility to those dead himself."

AQ were behind 9/11 and are a globally based terrorist organisation with a global agenda.
What is the connection between invading Iraq and 9/11?

Gar Hywel

"He invaded Iran when he believed that it was in chaos under the Ayatollah."

And was fully supported by the west for several years, in so doing.


"He thought he had an assurance of American non-interference when he invaded Kuwait."

The beginning of the end for Saddam, being duped in to thinking that, by George Bush Senior in 1991, for his own personal, and Texan, economic ends.

These wars have been more wars in support of Texas than of the USA! George Bush family are CofE Anglican; so there, and you and I are part owners as British subjects of British Petroleum of which the govt owns 30%.

If you use petrol in your car or central heating, you are partly to blame for the war. If you voted for the Labor govt, in 1997 you are partly responsible for war in Iraq and Afghan. If you voted in parliament in favor, you are largely responsible. If you voted in cabinet, then you get well paid for that responsibility.

The latter will hang over you until the grave.

If you voted against then you may rightly have a clear conscience.

greg

That's a non-binding 'independence vote' organized in Catalonia by 'volunteers' Paul, so thus about as valid as a phone poll on immigration by the Daily Mail, or possibly a consultation on more powers for the Welsh Assembly conducted by errr...the Welsh Assembly.

Gar Hywel

Obama is a very special case. Politicians like that are rare. A young family, a loyal wife, a representative of black America.....
Rather different for raising small funds.

Pauls' fears that Obama has chnanged his mind about pulling out of Afgh made me wonder whether Obama has been bullied in to it by war mongers in his "Defence" departments. It is possible but unlikely.

We have a great many military men round here, all extremely pushful, and the only thing that normal, peace loving people can do in the area, is to avoid them, and even that can be difficult.

Obama may not have come across such people, but I am sure he will resolve what he has got to do,with these pushful people, to persevere with his ambition,to pull US troops out of Afgh.

On the subject of Blair and his "lies", leadership is not an easy thing. How many Brits died in 09/11? 150? He had a responsibility to those dead himself.

WMD is an issue in Iran, and a strategic all indirect approach has been essential to most world conflicts since Hiroshima, especially where Russia/US relations are concerned.

Russia backs Iran.Iran has WMD, or has been hoping to. Iraq is easily dominated as a former UK colony, so it was.

The threat to Iran is similar as the one to Iraq was. It's a promise. If Iran tries any nuclear monkey business they know what treatment they will get.

Understanding STRATEGY Paul is not your strong point!

Kay Tie

"TU money?. I have had none."

You need to do more favours then :-)

Being serious for a moment, it's time for reform: no more donations from unions with members dues, no more donations from corporations with shareholders money, no more large donations from rich people. It should be individuals with their own money, with a relatively low cap.

If Obama could raise millions from small donations by a lot of people, then our own politicians can do likewise. If they can't then it says something about the politician..

Paul Flynn

Kay Tie, you do not know what Ashcroft is doing. One LibDem peer has calculated that £100.000 of Ashcroft money has been spent in the Pendle constituency where he lives. Gordon Prentice the siting MP cannot possibly match that. Pouring money into marginals worked last time as Peter Bradley's book proved. This is election cheating. Spending is controlled during election campaigns but not between elections.

TU money?. I have had none. My election last time cost a modest £4,000. None of that was TU money.

Kay Tie

"Corporate Tax Avoidance
www.Mulburyhamilton.co.uk Free No Fees Corporation Tax Review Up To 90% Income Retention."

Patrick, that's just a rubbish ad. It's probably referring to the special 10% capital gain tax rate introduced by Alastair Darling last year. You don't need to pay shysters to tell you about it: you can go to the HMRC web site.

There are lots of tax schemes that ordinary people haven't heard of, designed to encourage or discourage behaviour. EIS, VCTs, EMI, etc. It's perfectly legitimate to use these schemes. If you think this is wrong then you should be prepared to argue that (for example) there is no need to encourage venture capital for small businesses.

t S

Dear Dear Sir,it is 01.27 . am currently watching BBC24 ,westminster hall afgan stratergy,no doubt a repeat .May i pls start by commending you for two reasons ,firstly for speaking in a manner that unfortunately is almost exstinct by mps, so symplistically true honest and virtually no infact impossible to disagree with,if the programme u spoke on was recorded before mr,blairs recent declaration of his true intention in iraq regardless of wmds, definately impossible to disagree with ,so Sir as the rule of truth can not be an opinion. i no that you explained the problems that are associated with our occupation of afghanistan with such clarity and truth,using the same honest logical thought process u also have the solution ,this cannot be exclusive to you. so on this issue, your status of right honorable man is deserved and proved,My second commendation is your ability to have sat through the 35 mins of attempted counter replies and ifs and buts frankly utter jibba jabba and in the case of mr t ellewood utter wofflement ,i just invented that word and dedicate to him,Pls let him no .how u manage to not go bannana and scream and remain calm on an issue that lets not forget claimed and continues to hundreds of thosands of lives ,and is explained even normalised with wofflement amzed me .this is the reason i can not be politician

 Patrick

Blair no doubt consulted the almighty on Iraq. He was then instructed to join Bush and carry out wanton murder and destruction.

I have not read the bible in it's entirety but feel sure that nowhere does it say that it's ok to organise illegal invasions,murder, death, and destruction on another country.

If he is not dealt with by the laws of Britain then what kind of circus do we live in?

 Patrick

Don't worry KT , most of the big money is wi
theld through evasion and avoidance.
It's mostly the average person earning a pittance that has their taxes wasted.

Corporate Tax Avoidance
www.Mulburyhamilton.co.uk Free No Fees Corporation Tax Review Up To 90% Income Retention.

No good giving me the bucket, we need a blast furnace to puke at the corporate world!

Kay Tie

"We do know that Ashcroft is using his £millions to undermine Labour MPs in marginal seats."

We know the Trade Unions receive millions in "modernising" funds from this Government, and we know they give millions to the Labour Party. Where is that spent? Undermining Tory MPs in marginal seats?

"Pass the sick bucket."

Hand it to me when you're done.

At least we can look forward to the trade union money being cut off by the next government: tax-payers should not be funding political campaigning.

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