No more troops

Total of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan = 217

At last a real Afghan debate. General McCrystal has used the previously forbidden words, ‘exit’, ‘defeat’ and today ‘failure’.

His diagnosis is right. His medicine of more troops is not.

Britain must say no to the demand for more troops to be sent to Afghanistan. We have already suffered more than our fair share of deaths and serious injuries. Only America has lost more soldiers. The total of fatalities from all other 19 European countries is 212, less than the total of 217 British dead. 2,500 of our soldiers have been repatriated on medical grounds – many with serious injuries.

This is a NATO operation, but Britain is bearing a wholly disproportionate share of the burden in deaths, serious injuries and financial costs. British taxpayers paid £2.5 billion last year for the Afghan war. If extra troops are to be provided in answer to General McCrystal’ call today, they must come from other nations.

Fatalities:

USA: 830            UK: 216        Canada: 130       Germany: 38      France: 31    Denmark: 27     Spain: 25          Italy: 21         Netherlands: 21   Poland: 13        Australia: 11   Romania: 11    Estonia: 6         Norway: 4       Czech Rep:3   Latvia: 3           Hungary: 2      Portugal: 2       South Korea: 2  Sweden: 2       Turkey: 2           Belgium: 1        Finland: 1        Lithuania: 1

General McCrystal is quoted saying. "Failure to gain the initiative and reverse insurgent momentum in the near-term [next 12 months]... risks an outcome where defeating the insurgency is no longer possible." He warns that "inadequate resources will likely result in failure".

The General deserves congratulations for his realism. We still have general babbling inanely about 40 more years. But he is wrong in believing that success is possible. Public opinion will revolt against risking more lives to serve Karzai corrupt Government and their rigged election. Last year the Taliban was in control of 72% of the territory of Afghanistan. Now it’s 80%. The battle is already lost.

Rhodri sob-in

Time to get ready for a Labour Welsh sob-in.

I had hoped that Rhodri Morgan would stay after his 70th birthday on the 29th of this month. He said he was going on his birthday. But he did not say which one. He will have another one next year. The party is not in the mood for an election. In fact an 'Abolition of Elections and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill' would be strongly supported by Labour MPs at the moment-plus others concerned about their P45s.

But the evidence that he will go next week is building up. I did two television interviews today to be broadcast when it happens. I have also had phonecalls from two of the candidates who hope to replace him. I tried to make it easier for them by anticipating their question. It's embarrassing for the candidates but canvassing has to be done.

There are other preparations going on. I've had to dig deep into my store of Rhodri anecdotes. It's all very sad.  Rhodri is the first Leader Wales has had for several centuries. After ten years of his reign he remains remarkably popular. In retrospect he was helped by Tony Blair's attempt to foist his candidate on Wales. After waiting so long, Wales wanted our own chosen one. We have had two many alien princes and governor generals imposed on us.

Welsh history is sad repetitions of betrayals by generations of Welsh politicians who had promised home rule to get elected in Wales, then failed to deliver at Westminster. I am proud to belong to the generation that did honour its promise.

Rhodri has done Wales proud.

Old Friends

This is a post for Old Illtydians. Some photographs taken in 1951 have arrived. They are fascinating reminders of school day in St Illtyds then in the heart of Splott. These are mainly of Kevin Doherty and Michael Colbert. John Bremford, Rod Connors and John Benedict Donovan are also included. Many of us are still all in robust good health.

Comments

[Paul Flynn]

I promise you I am doing all I can. I will be speaking to three public meeting in the next fortnight. We cannot have a vote with parliament in recess. There are many obstacles in having one when we are back. But I will certainly be very vocal on the subject when parliament resumes.

[MJ]

It now appears we are allowing British troops to continue dying to support a corrupt government (the words of General MacCrystal) "elected" after a fraudulent vote. It seems incredible that MPs of any party would allow that to continue.

Nobody can seriously believe it is making the UK a safer place as Al-Quada now appear to be operating not from Afganistan but from Pakistan (and I assume no-one wants to send troops there?).

There is no conceivable way we can "win" this war and there there seems no likelihood that under the current strategy we could ever exit the country.
To paul Flynn and John Redwood

Why are MPs not doing their job in overseeing the government and forcing a vote on the issue?

There can no longer be any excuse to leave troops in harm's way > we should withdraw as soon as possible - only MPs can make that happen which is why i once again ask both of you to push more strongly for this to occur.

[Paul Flynn]

For saving the world economy, Tony. You take credit when it's offered. Not a lot from the British media.

[Tony]

I nearly fell off my chair this morning when I read that Gordon Brown is going to accept a 'world statesmen' award while he is in the US ? I was confused as to what for ?

[Paul Flynn]

Thanks Huw. I don't disagree with a word that you say. These are the things that I hope to develop at the public meeting on Thursday. I have no idea who will come along. It would be great to have contributions like yours in the discussion.

I have blogged about the Afghan casualties and raised the issue in questions and speeches in Parliament. There are many estimates of the numbers killed by 'collateral damage'. 3,000 is probably near the mark.

[Paul Flynn]

Thanks Aidan. I did not know that Jan Morris had written anything on 'Our First Leader". But I should know. I greatly admire her writing. What did she say?

[Aidan]

Rhodri will be missed on a political, cultural and social level. Talking of Welsh leaders, have you read Jan Morris's tongue-in-cheek novella, Our First Leader? Worth a look.

[John]

What Huw said

[HuwOS]

The battle was lost when the "legal" but utterly unjustified and immoral invasion was started.

I still take issue with how you will quote the loss of life of invading and occupying soldiers without at least noting the loss of life for at the very least Afghan civilians although I personally would prefer if you simply showed in as far as it is possible the total number of Afghan deaths which vastly outweigh the occupying armies losses and diminish into irrelevance the tragic loss of lives due to a similar outrage in New York on 11/9/2001.

Although Afghanistan has probably suffered the equivalent of what the Americans call 9/11 every year since 2001.
Roughly 3000 killed, vastly more injured of course and even more disposessed.

If 9/11 was a crime, and indeed it was, then what has been done to Afghanistan is worse by orders of magnitude and we should all be deeply ashamed of our part in it.

I understand, Paul, your reason for looking for hope in the public's attitude towards the war but still detest the fact that for us to do the right thing we have to blame Afghans for it.
"Karzai is corrupt", he may be, but then so are and were Blair & Bush et al, those are the people that soldiers have really been dying for after all.

Afghans are too tribal, too vicious, too violent, too backward to take up the wonderful opportunity that we have harmed so many of them to offer them.

It makes me sick to my stomach to see these kinds of claims made. We were the ones who invaded, we are the ones who have caused enormous loss of life, we are the vicious violent ones, just because our explosive devices are expensive and made in highly specialised factories does not make them more civilised.
They are not somehow more gentle because they are dropped from planes, or fired from helicopters nor more humane because they are used by people getting paid to do a job far from their homes, they still rend and kill and maim, perhaps more efficiently than IED's, perhaps having provided more employment than IED's, perhaps having contributed more to western national coffers than IED's but bombs are bombs, if one is wrong all are wrong.

The attitudes of many people in Afghanistan may be medieval, we may perceive them as cruel,callous and corrupt but I think we have proven, especially in the last 8 years that we are no better, and given that we have more options, we have shown that we are worse.