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September 25, 2009


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Paul Flynn

Thanks,Chris. I may take you up on that. Blaenau Gwent is sad stor for the Labour Party. Someone should write a book about. There were heroes and villains on both sides. Perhaps one day.

Chris Long

Indeed, that is ok for us who have that ability Kay Tie, but what about those who get fed the crap daily? Not everyone has this kind of access or the knowhow when it comes to sourcing the truth.

And even then, still, who do you vote for?
The problem is, there are great politicians in most parties, but they are often overshadowed by the party as a whole. The policies come thick n fast, the legislation becomes increasingly oppressive and they, unfortunately don't put their necks out and get heard over the voices of the front bench bickering.

I believe that the parties should do much more to connect with the public and actually listen to/act on, their concerns. At the moment it just seems like they are reacting to problems caused by them not listening originally to those who pointed out the problems in the first instance.

Kay Tie

"I don't want to listen to parties argue and call each other over, I want to hear the real facts behind the matters."

Then read the blogs. And the comments. I've seen lots of incisive analysis. Better still, the PR-driven non-stories that make up 90% of the mainstream media are debunked and dismissed in minutes, freeing up much time.

Chris Long

Indeed, I agree that the electorate could change who gets into power. The problem here is money and media, as per the usual.
Labour and Tory get the vast majority of the limelight, others only get their 15minutes of fame when they do something outrageous and then get a good public wooping for it.

What is really frustrating for myself and many that I speak to on a daily basis, is that "we" are never heard. The vast majority I speak to, NEVER vote! Those who do often just go with the family flow or stick to who they know. Who they know being the only 2 parties that get any decent air coverage.
My biggest problem with the way the media handles it is that often, the presenters will almost subconciously plant the same words about each party into your heads, followed by a dose of, better the devil you know?

I don't want to listen to parties argue and call each other over, I want to hear the real facts behind the matters.

Frustrated, isn't a word which can fully describe how I feel with the system, it does, infact make you wonder why to bother voting at all. I know that there is a damn good reason to vote, like keeping the likes of BNP out of power, but I would rather I didn't waste a vote based on missinformation or representation.

To answer your question Paul, im in Ebbw Vale, not too far from yourself. If your in the area, your more than welcome to pop into my tattoo studio for a cuppa and a chat :)


Experience is often believed to count for more than it is actually worth.
If it was necessary, then we would never change governments because no one else would have the experience needed.

People vote for who they vote for, if they wish for change they need to vote for anyone but the two major parties, it doesn't even matter much what the parties voted for believe in;
what matters is that if people other than those of the two major parties get in, they would understand, as members of the major parties fail to, that they were put there by the deliberate choice of their electorate not simply as a result of the tory labour see saw.
When the majority of elected representatives understand that and that their role can and will be taken away if they have misled their electorate, then we would have true accountability.
The principle blame does not lie with the representatives that we have now of course, it lies with the electorate who put them on the see saw and keep them there election after election, people have no interest in any bigger picture.

Promise me lower taxes or no tax increases now, promise me that I will be better off and I will believe you, then I will whine and moan if I am not as much better off as I believe I should be and if the other party offers me more for myself at the next election I'll help push the see saw down on the other side the next time.
Most importantly though, never tell me that I am the one making the choices and that I am to blame for running the see saw game, never ever tell me that what is wrong with the government, country, democracy is my fault, the purpose of politicians is to take the blame for my laziness and greed not to embarass me by explaining my responsibilities to me.

The electorate need to put new parties and groupings into government and they need to require of them some functional and acceptable form of proportional representation, not the ludicrous list system so favoured by those who have no desire for people to take a liking to PR.
Ireland's STV type of PR where you are voting for the particular people you wish to vote for and no one else is a good option although there are better ones than that.
To stick with our current FPP system today is like sticking with the model T ford as your vehicle of choice.
It had a role but its time is long past.

We probably should consider banning political parties as well, as their primary function appears to be and is in fact anti democratic, where the party can and does, most often effectively, pressure a representative to vote against his or her beliefs and/or the wishes of those he or she represents. Paul is principled and strong willed and will in most cases stand against such pressure, but 80 of his fellow labour MPs backed down from opposing the Iraq war because of it and as Paul has said, if they had not Britain would have had no part in the crime and would have played no part in the hundreds of thousands of deaths and the many more injured,maimed and dispossessed.

Neither bringing in PR nor banning political parties would solve the problems of this democracy however, only the electorate can do that and chances are they won't.

But they could if they wanted to.

Paul Flynn

I can hardly be impartial on this Chris. I do not know where you live or what your choice is. Voting for the best Labour or Tory is usually the best. There is likely to be influx of Tory nerds and lobbyists. A leaven of experienced Labour MPs would help to bring balance. But I would say that, wouldn't I?

Chris Long

The problem with the Tories and for a matter of fact, the other parties (although its only a 2 horse race as per usual) is that they all have skeletons in their closets....why do you think that the UK public are sooo dismayed?

I really, at this point in time, know not who to vote for. It has become increasingly difficult to support any party and unfortunately, it is also hard to get any proper information without noticing a decent bit of sleaze to go with it.

The political system needs a real overhaul, yes I admit that no-one is perfect, and I don't by any means want a bunch of puritanical perfect people there, as the first part is already sat in government and the second part is unachievable lol.

We need people who represent us, the problem is, many are overshadowed either by the parties they represent or by the media and the childish fingerpointing that gets aimed towards those who really do want the chance to make a change.

It would be nice to be able to vote in those as individuals, rather than a party.

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