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May 26, 2009


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Who would decide what defines whether or not a prisoner gets visitors? I can envision a situation where a family are only able to visit rarely due to distance/cost (only people on less than £14K per year get help with that), so beaucracy dictates that the prisoner can be outsourced - and if it saves money, you can bet they will be outsourced, whether they like it or not.

Also, I think the Netherlands holistic approach is a factor in the low crime rate; not sure that fixing one piece of the puzzle would do the same for our outsourcees.

Paul Flynn

Fair point DG, but not all prisoners get visitors. Those in for short sentences do. Many others don't. It is a problem now for families that have relatives imprisoned a long way from home.

The Netherlands can be reached easily by train or by car It's a journey I have made several times. The advantages are enormous. In addition to cost saving, the more enlightened prison system in the Netherlands may cut re-offending.


How will family ties (important to rehabilitation) be maintained if the prisoners are in another country? It's hard enough on families who have to make long journeys within the UK.

These are human beings, not surplus stock to be moved to another warehouse.

Paul Flynn

Yes DG. We are spending a fortune building new prisons. Our policies have not changed. The Tories agree that tough policies work. A rising prison population is certain.
The Netherlands believe in intelligent policies and not tough ones. They have fine humane empty prisons. It seem like a good idea.


Ah, Llangranog :) God bless the swogs!

Were you serious about the outsourcing idea?

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