« Branson’s Babble | Main | Eternal conflict »

December 26, 2008


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Graham Marlowe

Nice to be able to report a piece of good news, Paul, warming to your theme, and that is that your dear friend James Purnell has been given an award according to Sunday's newspapers.

He has, apparently, been awarded the title of "Pimp Of The Year" by an organisation called The Lilith Project, which campaigns against anti-sexual violence, because the sex industry are allowed to advertise in Jobcentre Plus! - including for "table dancers (don't for heavens sake tell Fiona McTaggart - she gave us a sanctimonious lecture about "morals" on a recent edition of PM on Radio 4, she will be apopletic, poor thing) still, I suppose Jimmy Boy would say "business is business"

Graham Marlowe

I think you started your "good news" spiel (script by Mandy, perhaps?) a tad too early.

Today we hear that yet another High street retailer, Adams has gone into administration and are likely to close a percentaghe of it's shops very shortly

Last night, our former "spiritual leader" Blair apparently told an audience at Yale University "It is true that we had 10 years of record growth when I was Prime Minister. I have, unfortunately, come to the conclusion that it was luck"

Funny how the truth will out with that creature when you wave a big enough check in front of him

Oh yes, and, trouble, coming as it does in threees, five bishops have today described New Labour as "morally bankrupt".

The jig is up, Paul. Roll on 2010


Obama certainly has put a good team together .I'll hold my breath though until i see action, after all it's still the USA we're talking about.

Paul Flynn

I am with you on this one Patrick. Are you cheered up by the great people that Obama has appointed to run his enviromental
policies. Many other countries will follow in his slip stream.


By simply looking at what ppm level a human being can stay alive at is to reduce what Lovelock says to one issue alone.
Maybe somebody can breathe at this level but it's helpful to have something to eat. At our present rate of growth we will reach 500ppm in Forty years.The rise in temperature
according to the IPCC could be as much as 5 Degrees Celcius (this Century). Apart from the desert like land conditions there will be no organisms left in the sea.
If you have time/inclination have a read of 'The revenge of Gaia (Lovelock).
Would be interested to hear your views.


James Lovelock cites?

I did find a General article by D S Robertson (Health effects of increase in concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere) which gives some support to Lovelock.

Yet at CO2 science on their "Enhanced or Impaired? Human Health in a CO2-Enriched Warmer World" link, cite studies that suggest very high concentrations (15,000ppm) would be needed to affect human health. This is in-line with OSHA* regulations for workplaces although, as D S Robertson points out, not continous exposure. (*OSHA regs change from time to time so 15,000ppm may not be latest recomendation).

If D S Robertson is correct with the figure he cites (426ppm) adversely affecting health then the argument should be in this domain not AGW. Yet it does not appear to be. Still even this discussion does not exclude the polar regions.

The IPCC (WGII) discuss Human Health effects yet do not talk about CO2 concentration and human health.

I believe the UN FCCC does not require an assessment by signatories of the effect of CO2 concentration on Human Health.

Why are the IPCC and UN unconcerned?



The statement comes from 'one of the environmetal movement's most influential figures'(observer)
James Lovelock in his book Revenge of Gaia.


patrick do you have a link/citation for this --> "According to top scientists by 2050 CO2 ppm will be high enough to make life inhospitable to humans (except the polar regions)."


"The powerful message over the holidays came from Rowan Williams, Patrick. He hopes we might see the hollowness of our greed and grab society and our addiction to over-consumption."

I agree full on with that message. The problem is simple. The people are selfish and want more money, cheap food, cheap fuel, cheap travel etc. They elect politicians that want and have exactly that.

Growth ,Growth ,....... Growth!
we have proudly produced all kinds of plastic crap including chickens that do the conga for christmas presents.
Meantime the World's Ocean's contain less organic life than ever recorded.The lungs of the planet (Forests) diminish in size every year.....etc.
According to top scientists by 2050 CO2 ppm will be high enough to make life inhospitable to humans (except the polar regions).
Even in Britain we have managed with the help of pharmacists , bankers, politicians, and public demand for cheap food to eradicate our most precious habitats. we have destroyed most of our Bio-rich meadows, Peat bogs. We are so intelligent that nearly all pond life (the remaining few that haven't been filled in) in the countryside are so full of Nitrates that only certain bacteria exist.

In order to help our precious Earth system we need brave ,intelligent , science based politicians (like Obamas new team), to put the planet first and humans second.
our urban based concrete head politicians
put there by sun readers have no connection with life outside of a city restaurant.

Trivial tribal politics has zero relevance to any important World issues.
The USA has at last a man that will change the world dependency on Carbon fuels and we will follow.
Labour and Conservative will be confined to the dustbin and a new Ecology World movement will emerge desperate to preserve human life on Earth.

Graham Marlowe

I think you are right, Adam. After the barbaric air strikes by Israel in the Gaza strip yesterday, the silence from Obama is deafening.. I suspect, like every previous President before him, Obama will turn a blind eye towards the excesses of Israel. To do otherwise would, of course, bring the usual whining self-pity mixed with self-justification from Israel, with the usual implied anti-semitism charge.

Until the American president makes it quite clear to Israel that they have to tow the line, they will continue, like the bullies they are, to do as they like.


I know you are a devout admirer of Purnell's Tory policies. I wonder how you or he would like to live on less than £100 a week, and how it makes people feel to suffer the jibes that people like Purnell make i.e. people on benefits sit on their backsides all day watching daytime TV?

Purnell is abiout as "Labour" as Tebbitt was. Some Labour MPs like John McDonnell see this - pity you don't


I wonder on what basis people admire Barack Obama for. It seems like nothing more than an empty personality cult driven by nothing more substantive than a few well rehearsed speeches.

Paul Flynn

The powerful message over the holidays came from Rowan Williams, Patrick. He hopes we might see the hollowness of our greed and grab society and our addiction to over-consumption.

Of course it's a nightmare for anyone to lose their jobs especially with the dearth of alternatives. But you are unduly cynical Graham. The welfare state is still there and functioning as well as ever. Abuse should always be rooted out. There is still plenty of that.

In my 25 years in the steelworks I witness many slim-downs and redundancies. They were hell for thousands who never fully recovered from the blows. Others emerged stronger and had improved lives in other occupations.

It's reasonable to expect great things from Obama. He is an exceptional politician in every way


patrick (sidestepping) asked about the IPCC.

The thing I object to is producing a political summary that the scientific reports had to agree with. That is a strange process.

anyways patrick, it was meant to be a little dig hence the smiley.

btw Talking of IPCC and models, even Gavin, over at realclimate, is struggling with the 2008 temp and the models, which Lucia refers to as Gavin spins with spagehetti diagrams.



why not give us all a good laugh and tell us where the IPCC have got it all wrong?


"The good news is that there will be Millions of new jobs Worldwide in Solar, Wind , and other energy sources."
Permanent jobs? It also seems windmills need de-icing due to the cold. Cold? It does seem a little cool at the moment :)

"Supreme world hope President-elect Barack Obama"
Can he live up to this hype?

The year ahead is going to be very interesting.



The Hunting Act needs strengthening urgently. Many MPs are signing EDM 122 (including Paul) and calling for this.
It is totally unacceptable for these serial law breakers to be allowed to be able usurp the will of the people.
The government must act, all it needs are a few small amendments.

Graham Marlowe

Patrick, the problem is all these thousands of people being put out of work (mainly becauise of the incompetence of their bosses and the banks) will have to jump through hoops in order to get JSA in Purnell's ever more draconian policies.

It isn't their fault they are going to be out of wotrk, but they will be the ones who suffer. Earlier this week we saw The Officers Club, a poncey clothing retailer go into administration only to be taken hours afterwards by the same management team that had got them in trouble in the first place.

"Your'e so BUSINESS FRIENDLY, Gordon!"


slightly off topic. part of the reason to vote Labour was the hunt ban.
Yesterday an estimated 300,000 people hunted throughout Britain. They are breaking the law and the police, fat city solicitors(frogs on horses), vets etc are big hunt players. As the law will do nothing and believe me i have been there, i now feel totally at liberty to do likewise and slash their tyres at the meet.


Any downturn in growth should be welcomed.
2009 will go down as the turning point from the over-production of totally pointless, materialistic , non-recyclable junk to a state of common sense.
Yes there will be thousands of victims (including myself). People that produce things that nobody needs and are detrimental to the earth.
The good news is that there will be Millions of new jobs Worldwide in Solar, Wind , and other energy sources.
Obama is already setting the pace and we will follow like the puppets we are.
About time!

Graham Marlowe

"The Negativity bias is fiercely rampant in this holiday’s media. Whoever comes up with the gloomiest forecast of financial hell get the headline of the day"

Thaty's right, Paul. Always look on the bright side, and shoot the messenger.

Perhaps, just for you, the BBC should start a "good news" channel, and the most spiritually uplifting news stories could be read by Hazel Blears while executing a tap-dance.

Try the Pollyanna stuff on the staff of Woolworths, as they prepare for their last week of work 9if they are lucky) - they don't even know, many of them IF they will be paid, or have to seek assistance from that nice Tory Boy, Purnell.

The comments to this entry are closed.