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September 29, 2008


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Paul Flynn

Johnny Boy must be a Mikey take. No-one can be that foolish.

Graham Marlowe

NHonestly Johnny Boy do you seriously believe that New Labour is an "extremist party"?

In what way? It has to be said Blair (especially) and Brown have just stolen Tory policies, and those few ideas that NL have had have been stolen by the Tories, but the traffic is mainly in the NL to Tory direction.

If NL is extremist then so is the Tories. The truth is, as you rightly say, self-interest. Blair will grasp and crawl for every penny he can lay his hands on, hence the lecturing, "advising", consulting etc etc. He and his wife are greedy money grubbers, with their property deals just like so many of the Tories and the "greed is good" parasites like John Hutton.

Johnny Boy

Paul lamely asserts Labour lost their support over Iraq - who was ever held to account for that Mr Flynn?

Paul brushes aside so many topics. so many topics never raised at the whitewash the Labour hierachy sweeped under the conference carpet despite promising to be "listening".

- tax, tax, tax
- 1,600 new PC laws per year
- smoking ban
- tax on pensions
- school fees
- no EU referendum
- anti-car policies
- 45 day detention
- ID Cards
- DNA database
- spy cameras
- fuel taxes
- climate change
- CO2 taxes
- enviro 'crimes' units
- fox hunting ban
- planning laws (control over private property)
- NOT listening

The Labour Party has nothing to do with Socialism as it has systematically destroyed the working (blue and white collar) classes. Labour has impoverished them with huge national and local taxation, criminalised them with 1,600 new PC laws a year of trivia and ultra-pettiness, spyed on them with a camera on nearly every street and attacked their freedoms to move (car and plane), drink, smoke and now eat what they want.

Mr Flynn insidiously avoids these topics and the Labour Party conference whitewashed every single one of those issues from their meaningless conference agenda. So much for "listening" !!

Labour is a self-serving, minority interest, extremist party. Its ideology is neither left nor right. Neither Socialist or Capatalist. It is (all) about money (tax) and control (the expodential growth in PC laws, H&S laws, Enviro-Crime laws). Labour serves nobody but itself. Which is why it is now imploding.

Like the Tories in the 90's, Labour does not serve the public so cannot reach out, listen and make genuine change. Labour has never improved life in 13yrs, only burdened the people with tax and law to serve its own inward agenda.

Labour is now imploding inward, the only focus it has, and eating itself in full public view. Brown tries to project authority and a steady hand to the public while fending off all about him position like vultures to take primary feeding spots for his inevitable carcass.

Labour resembles the EU. Out-of-touch, unaccountable and living in Ivory Towers handing out its latest trivial State dictate. A centralist cabal consisting of a self-serving minority living off the backs of the people, pouring more money into the machine (ie. NHS) which is never seen by end-users. A paranoid Govt (hence need for spy cameras) and hell bent on controlling peoples every waking moment.

Labour no longer follow any ideology but are a phsycology. The physcology of self interest. Idealism is dead at Labour. The climate is dead, it is a mechanism for tax. Road safety is dead, it is a means for tax. The car is not a transport system to improve it is a means to tax.

Money (tax) and Law (power/control) is all. And the country knows Labours weasel words carry no meaning and their conference promises are hollow - Labour are morally and financially bankrupt.

Johnny Boy

Can I clarify for muddled Socialists posting here that Capatalism does not support bailing out bankrupt financial companies caught out pushing high risk loans.

Capatalists let them go to the wall. Which is exectly what bankrupt Brown and Alistair dig-a-lack-hole Darling is doing (£110bn to bail out Northern Rock and Brad'& Bing') and exactly what the Yank Senators are trying to do with their $700bn (+ £110bn in tax breaks just added today). They should go to the wall.. and take the Socialist politicians with them.

The problem began with Socialism. Obama and his Socialist friends lobbied some years ago for removing prudent lending rules so poor people could afford to buy their own homes. A nice warm Socialist thought but it allowed 125% mortgages that came back to cripple Fanne Mae and Fanne West when unrealistic income/outgoings and self-mortgage forms weren't worth the paper they were written on.

Is anyone surprised at Obama supporting the bail-out of the 2 Fannies? When an ex- Fanne Exec is on Obamas campaign staff?

Finally why are we so 'switched on' to Americas plight and we say not a peep about the bankrupt Labour Party following identical socialist policy by blowing £110bn of taxpayers money on Northern Rock (£80bn) and Bradford & Bingley (£30bn) ? Why now scandal here, why are we not outraged in Blighty, and why have the Labour spivs slapped secrecy orders about how they're conducting this business???

Paul Flynn

Thanks. Blairism in 97 was perhaps too successful i winning votes across the mushy middle ground of politics. Nothing of value was every built on a marsh.

We lost so many of our traditional core voters over Iraq. I am still optimistic that Brown can win hem back.

The names you list Graham are seen as reincarnations of Blair ho might replicate his victories. Dangerous delusions.

Graham Marlowe

Huw, I think you are wrong: the core Labour vote is still on the Left, and I would put it to you that the reason that the core vote has deserted the pargty is indeed because New Labour is little different to the Tory partry.

It seems therefore nonsensical that some people in the PLP think that a younger Blair would solve all the problems: the unions mistrust Miliband for example. I personally would never vote for a Labour party led by him, Hutton or Purnell especially.

I think the Blairites should now realise that if the voters want Tory policies they will vote for the Conservative Party. Brown should take advantage of his stronger position to rid his cabinet of the remaining Blairites and concentrate on forming a cabinet that reflects the views of True Labour, not New Labour: "Middle England" is very fickle and will go from one fad to another - remember the SDP?

Paul Flynn

Congratulations Huw O'Sullivan for having the mental agility to get down to the Limbo dance level of unintelligent argument of Johnny Boy.
Can he be real or just an invented caricature of every moronic political concept?

Huw O'Sullivan

Of course Blair did nothing to change the situation nor Brown for that matter, but then they were not leading a socialist Labour Party, they were leading New Labour, which might as well have been the New Tory party.
Which is why old Labour supporters have been slipping away from them after each term has proven the party is no more socialist than Margaret Thatcher's underwear drawer.
The core vote for New Labour is no longer the left leaning people of Britain despite Paul's greatest wish.
As I am constantly reminded, he did say that in '97 Labour would win the election but lose the party, he sees some signs of return to true form in recent decisions, but he is mistaken. It is free market capitalism bailing out the money men, movers and shakers. rather than for example protecting the citizens by guaranteeing their mortgages.
So the banks are being saved to foreclose on the groundlings, thats not socialism, thats american style capitalism at its best and Thatcher would have been first to do it.

Graham Marlowe

"The 'loads of money' 'red braces' ugly city speculators at the financial casinos are a creation of Thatcherism's 'market is omnipotent' excesses."

BVery true, Paul, but hang on a minute.... Two landslide election wins for Blair, plus a fair 67u in 2005, I don't see much evidence that Blair - or Brown - ever did anything to curb these excesses, or indeed, any of the others like privatisation of the public services, and as regards privatisation - especially in the NHS Blair/Brown went much further than Thatcher.

I wonder by the way, how many government ministers have shares in the Spanish company who now have Alliance and Leicester, Abbey and now B&B under their control?

Johnny Boy

Poor stuff?

The Democrats $700bn bail-out fraud just flopped in Congress hehe ;)

The Democrats didn't listen the public. For once the Republicans did.

Great fillip for McCains election campaign. I don't fancy high tax Socialist Obamas chances at the next TV debate.

Democrats go back to your constituents and prepare, like Labour in Britain, to get slaughtered.

Paul Flynn

This is very poor stuff Johnny Boy, not worthy of a reply.

I'll leave them in place so that it will cheer up my thinking commentators when they realise how weak the opposition is.

Just had a meal with MP John Austin. Labour greatly increased the vote in a seat in his constituency last week

Johnny Boy

Here's some alternate headlines for MP Flynn (or is it fleece?) regards the bail-out (balls-up) Socialist financial agenda;

"Darling Burns £130bn of British families money in minority party spending orgy"

I refer to Alistair 'alien-being' Darling bailing out Northern Rock with £80bn of British taxpayers money. Namely impoverishing even further already over-taxed citizens with handouts to fat cat City friends.
First rule of capatalism is you are responsible. First rule of Socialism is tap the people for every stupid scheme (ie. Socialist scam).

"Socialists, sorry, US democrats spend $700bn of good peoples money to buy $7.00 worth of rotten assets"

Possibly the biggest abrogation of democracy in US history (50% of Americans are against bailing our rotten finance companies - only 26% are for it) the US Democratic parties rescue plan, like Labour in Britain, is playing deaf, dumb and stupid to US public opinion.
Possibly also the biggest financial fraud forced down the throats of hard-pressed US taxpayers (and their families) where rotten deals and rotten Execs are passing the buck, and rotten money, by throwing good taxpayers money at it. This is not a solution. This is making a much bigger problem last much longer.
But Socialism and idiotic decisions go hand in hand. Impoverish the blue and white collar sector to keep the fat cat Execs in champagne. Genuius!

In America the public have a slight chance of getting a word in. In Marxist Britain, the public are snuffed out completely by Gordon "listening" Brown slapping secrecy curtains across the whole Northern Rock, Brad & Bingley dirty rotten scandal to save his face.

Safe pair of hands?

More like a serial bankrupt with a penchant for pick-pocketing all hard working citizens .

Paul Flynn

Thanks Jolly Roger for your contributions now and in the past. there are very good reasons why I cannot write further, send me an e-mail

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