Part of the uncorrected transcript of a meeting between Wales First Minister and the Commons Select Committee on Political and Constitutional Reform:
Q<86> <Paul Flynn:> On this constitutional convention, would you expect to hear the voices of people who do not approve of the United Kingdom being united or who do not approve of the United Kingdom being a kingdom?
Carwyn Jones: I think that the convention should be as wide as possible. It is a perfectly valid question to ask as to whether those who do not believe that the UK should continue in its present form would want to be part of constitutional convention. However, we know, from the evidence, that as far as Scotland is concerned, and certainly as far as Wales is concerned, the majority of people would want to remain within the UK and would want to be part, no doubt, of a constitutional convention.
Q<87> <Paul Flynn:> Do you believe, on the example of the Scottish experience, that if you want the half apple of devo max, you should campaign for the full apple of independence?
Carwyn Jones: No; I do not accept that. I think that there are examples elsewhere in Europe—in Spain, for example, in the case of the Basque country—where you have something very close to devo max. Again, there is something close to devo plus in Catalonia, and there are illustrations there of how a state can continue with its present boundaries while still being able to give weight to the feelings of nations and regions within that state. I do not think that devolution, in any form, necessarily leads to independence.
Q<88> <Paul Flynn:> Your recent arguments have been that an independent Wales would not have a new nuclear power station in Wylfa and would not have Trident at Milford Haven. Are these arguments for or against independence?
Carwyn Jones: I am not in favour of independence. I have never put forward any scenarios as to what should happen in an independent Wales because I do not believe in an independent Wales.
Q<89> <Paul Flynn:> In the measure of public opinion that took place some years ago there was a rare unanimous vote by all eight county councils in Wales at the time. They voted for a nuclear-free Wales with a very strong resolution. You are now suggesting that an independent Wales would welcome nuclear power and weapons of mass destruction. Do you not see this argument as possibly counter-productive?
Carwyn Jones: No, that is not what I said. It was a question of what might happen if Scotland were to become independent. I have never advocated an independent Wales and have never put forward any suggestions as to what might happen in an independent Wales.
Q<90> <Paul Flynn:> Do you think it is reasonable for a small nation like Wales, if it did take an independent view, if we can look forward to that in the future, to elect to be part of the fourth biggest defence budget in the world and to engage in wars such as those in Iraq and Afghanistan, if Wales was taking its decisions independently, or should we continue to be tied to the United Kingdom defence policy?
Carwyn Jones: Given the fact that I have come here to argue for a constitutional convention that holds the UK together, I certainly would not want to offer a view on what might happen in an independent Wales that I would not want to see.