An Intense Silence

Total number of soldiers killed in Afghanistan = 288

Foreign Affairs debate yesterday. 

Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Why does the right hon. Gentleman disagree with the Defence Secretary, who said that it was his priority to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and that he could see no reason for spending taxpayers’ money on defending the education policy in a “broken 13th-century country”?

 

Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman has a particular view on Afghanistan, which he often expresses and which we must respect. It would be rather starry-eyed of him to believe that the Defence Secretary agreed with him, however. If anyone had seen our visit to Afghanistan at the weekend, they would have witnessed the total agreement between the Defence Secretary, the International Development Secretary and myself. I will come to the matter of Afghanistan in a moment and deal with the hon. Gentleman’s point.

 

Paul Flynn: On corruption in Afghanistan, is not the fact that the election-rigging Karzai has failed to arrest his openly corrupt brother proof that the elimination of endemic corruption in Afghanistan is wholly unattainable?

 

David Miliband: My hon. Friend makes an important point. The investigation and any prosecution of Ahmed Wali Karzai, far from being the first step, will be a step rather further down the road in tackling corruption in Afghanistan. However, the questions that I was asking about the Kandahar operation speak directly to the situation in southern Afghanistan and to whatever role Mr Ahmed Wali Karzai is playing in that part of the country.

 

Paul Flynn: The hon. Gentleman’s party has an honourable record in calling for an inquiry into Iraq. Does he think that as the Iraq war caused the death of 179 soldiers, and the incursion into Helmand province increased the number of British deaths from seven to 286, it is time that we had an inquiry into that incursion, where it was hoped that not a single shot would be fired?

Mr Llwyd: I agree absolutely with the hon. Gentleman. He and I believe strongly that the incursion is wrong and that it will end in tears. Some of us said at the beginning that it was another Vietnam. At the time, we were laughed at, but I am afraid we are rapidly getting there.

 

Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): A special intense silence falls on this place when the names of the fallen are read out. We experienced it yesterday when the names of those who have died since we last met were read out by both Front-Bench spokespeople. It is right that we read those names out, that we record our gratitude for the heroism of those who have fallen and that we remind ourselves that we in this place were responsible for the decision to send them to war. Every one of those names belongs to a person whose life has ended and we remind ourselves that they all had loved ones who suffered a wound that will never heal.

It might surprise hon. Members to learn that I have before me the names of all those who have fallen, but I do not intend to read them out, first, because to do so would take longer than the 10 minutes available to me and, secondly, because I am forbidden to do so. I have not mentioned in the House before that after I last read out a list of the 250 names of the fallen the extraordinary decision was taken that this is not to be allowed on any future occasion. I am not sure why, because it is right that there should be an occasion, at least once a year—the list should perhaps not be read by a Back Bencher, but by the Leader of the House—on which we should recall not just the names of the individuals who have died in the previous week or so, but the names of all those who have died. That would leave us with a profound impression of the result of our decisions.

The attitude in this House towards Afghanistan is one of mutually assured delusion, and we heard a bit of that today. We know that only the future is certain and the past is always changing; every politician is trying to rewrite and reshape the past. It does not often seem that we have to reshape the past of last week, but we received optimistic and positive reports of last week’s visit by the three Ministers to Afghanistan. It seems strange that omitted from the reports was the major event of that trip, which was their inability to visit their main destination because of Taliban activity.

I have also raised with the Foreign Secretary the comments by the Defence Secretary, who was reported in The Times as having said that the troops were not there

“for the sake of the education policy in a broken 13th-century country.”

The Defence Secretary has rapidly suffered the fate of all Ministers, including Defence Ministers, who are caught in possession of an intelligent idea. Denials were issued, including by the Foreign Secretary, who I am delighted to see in his place, saying that either that it was not said or that it was not meant. However, this was an entirely rational approach of Government, because we cannot sacrifice the lives of our troops in a war designed to reshape the education policy of a country that is in a state of civilisation that is centuries behind us all.

The policy supported from all sides is based on a series of delusions. The other thing that we primarily lie about is Karzai. If we had not gone into Afghanistan in 2001, we would see Karzai as a rogue leader and take resolutions about removing him, because he has fixed his own election and is publicly corrupt. A member of the World Bank who wrote a book about it afterwards said to him, “I have absolute proof of how $1 million has been stolen from the funds devoted from abroad.” He replied, “You westerners don’t understand Afghanistan. This is the Afghan way of doing things. You pay us the money and we steal it.” This has been the lubricant of Afghan politics and Afghan business for hundreds of years. Corruption is endemic, but we still play this foolish game of believing that we can get rid of corruption and that if we pass a few resolutions here, corruption will go. That will not happen. It has been asked many times, if Karzai is serious about ending corruption, why does he not arrest his brother? It comes very close to his line.

The other delusion that is constantly repeated is that we are there to ensure that there is not terrorism on our streets. It certainly did not work in New York, where there was an act of terrorism regardless of America’s action in Afghanistan. The right hon. and learned Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) made a telling point, although he came to the wrong conclusion, when he said that al-Qaeda was no longer operating in Afghanistan. If we look at the facts, we will see that none of the terrorist threats or actions has come from Afghanistan. They have come from Pakistan and from this country. If we wanted to ensure that terrorist acts were not planned, we would have to invade Pakistan, Somaliland and Yemen. This is a myth. We have not, as few of our Front Benchers have met Taliban leaders, but if we said to a Taliban leader, “What is your aim? Why are you killing our soldiers?”, would they say, “Oh, when we’ve killed your soldiers, we’re coming over to London and Newport to blow up your streets.”? Or would they say, “We are killing your soldiers because they are farangi. They are in our country and it is our sacred religious duty to kill them, to drive them out of our country in the same way as our fathers did with the Russians, as our grandfathers did with other farangi and as our great-great-grandfathers did, and in the same way as we hope that our children will die in expelling farangi from our country”? Our presence there is the reason why the killing continues.

Let us consider the two levels of war that we have had from when we went to Afghanistan, when it was not controversial, up to 2006 when there was no decision in this House, but there was a debate. The Government at the time said that they were going into Helmand province in the hope that not a shot would be fired and that they would be out in three years. That was accepted in the debate by all parties. In that debate, I suggested that that action would be as futile and dangerous as the charge of the Light Brigade. I seriously underestimated the carnage that resulted. We have now lost twice as many people in Helmand as died in the charge of the Light Brigade, in a mission that has been equally futile.

We base our hope on a number of pillars. One is the Afghan army and the other the Afghan police. The Afghan army was involved in a mission six months ago in which 300 of its members were guarding a convoy that was attacked by seven members of the Taliban. The Afghan army fled—they were outnumbered and left the Taliban to capture the convoy. It was rightly asked at the time why on earth mercenary soldiers—which is what they are, and they might well desert or be in the Taliban in a week’s time, as there are mass desertions— should kill brother Afghans and give up their lives in the service of a corrupt President who is not of their tribe and in the service of foreign countries.

The other group is the police. The only time at which a police force that is free of corruption has been set up anywhere in recent times was in Georgia, where they sacked the entire police force and started again. We are not doing that. We are building on a collapsing, rotten foundation of a police force that is based on corruption. That is the way in which it is run. The chiefs of the police buy their jobs and the reason that they pay huge amounts of money to become important leaders of the police is that they get their money by taking a cut of the money taken from the Afghan people by oppressing and stealing from them.

Even worse, when we so-called liberated one area in Penkala, the chiefs and elders came forward and said, “Whatever you do, don’t send in the Afghan police, because the last time they were here, they practised bacha bazi.” Those who are familiar with that will know that it is the ritual imprisonment and rape of prepubescent boys. The person whom they appealed to said, “You had the Taliban here before. Were they not wicked people?” They said, “Yes, they are wicked and cruel, but they are men of principle.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

[dave]

everything you accuse the afghans of they probably learnt from us.

paul have you forgotten about british politiians taking back handers and making false expenses claims.

how many politicians are criminals or have criminals in their family. drug dealers,theives,money launderers,fraudsters etc

some politicians have even done time in prison.

do we have a police force free of corrupt officers? no

do we have soldiers using drugs and doing things their superiors say they shouldnt be doing [like torture,stealing,rape and taking bribes]

your trying to rewrite history,wash the blood from your governments hands and put the blame elsewhere.
you to demonise the afghani leadership,army and police when its a case of just a few bad apples which the west foisted on the afghani people.

why not do something positive for our troops or the afghani people.
can't you be constructive or are you just a whinger and your abilities only amount to keeping a public toilet open

by lying your party/government has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people as well as thousands of coalition troops.

you know your party by sucking up to george bush created all the problems we face in afghanstan.

as i see it your just whinging to clear your conscience,sleep at night and get your anti war protester votes.

[Paul Flynn]

You should have read other speeches I have made. This is the ten minute version. I commend the debate that went on for a hour and a half last year. It dealt with Nato's 'ethical corruption' in which bribery on an industrial scale has been introduced into Afghanistan. Pallets of bubble-wrapped $100 dollar bills are distributed to buy compliance with Nato's doomed policies.

Thanks for noticing that I helped keep a toilet open against the decision of he foolish pantomime horse Newport coalition of Tories and Lib-Dems.