Some good news

Revolt's fruits

New tax measures come into force this month that should see about 22 million people receive a rebate of around £60. The new measures will mean basic rate taxpayers see a tax saving of £120.

This follows the revolt by backbench MPs in the spring.  The losses were rightly denounced because they hit the worst off.  This good news will be either ignored or derided. After the £60 gain this month, 22 million people’s net pay rise by £10 per month for the rest of this tax year.

Higher rate taxpayers will not benefit. Although far from perfect, this change undoes much of the hideous damage done by the 10p tax change. So far, it’s for one year only.

A very substantial number of Labour backbenchers wish to improve the change and make it permanent. It's not over yet.

Richard Lionheart

North Wales Police Chief has announced his non-retirement. Previously it was reported that Richard Brunstrom said he expected to "retire and disappear" by the end of next year. Now he says that the person who announced his departure was "mistaken".

Good on you Richard. You are a rarity among Police bosses. He has courageously expressed his views and charged  the walls of prejudice and vested interests. Not all his statements are wise. Whose are? But he has been consistently splendid on drugs.

Long may you reign, Richard.

NHS superb

This afternoon I had an appointment with a consultant in Chepstow Hospital.

The building is relatively new. It’s sparklingly clean and tastefully furnished. I was warmly and courteously welcomed. Within minutes of the appointment time, a nurse undertook the usual tests and I met the woman consultant.

She turned out to be skilled and highly intelligent. She listened patiently to my tale of my companion of 64 years – arthritis. I have had no pills or treatment since 1974 and cancelled hip and knee operations in 1993. That was on the basis of wise words from a physician. He told me to work out when I planned to die and have the operation ten years earlier. That time has not come yet.

 After a very thorough examination, the consultant told me that the disease has ‘burnt out’ in my body. It might flare up again. Such is the nature of the beast.  She made no attempt to persuade me to take any drugs or painkillers. She suggested I came to see her in a year’s time.

Altogether a quality experience that could not be bettered outside of the NHS.  The consultant is from Gloucester, and no, she did not know what my job is.

Past perfect

Pensioners and children enjoy their first day of free entry to Cadw sites

Pensioners and children in Wales have today been enjoying their first day of free entry to Cadw charging sites – thanks to Welsh Labour. 

The free entry scheme for children aged 16 and under and pensioners aged 60 and over, resident in Wales, to Cadw charging sites honours Welsh Labour’s pledge at last year’s Assembly elections. It also helps to give more people in Wales access to the wealth of history at Cadw sites.

As of today, access to Caerleon Roman Fortress Baths will also be free to ALL. The current charging policy at the Roman Baths is confusing due to the National Roman Legion Museum site being free of charge, as are the amphitheatre, fosse and barracks. This is deterring visitors from gaining a full understanding of the wider historic context of the monuments. This follows the decision to make Blaenafon Ironworks free to all last Easter.

Great!

Madam President Palin

This comment came into my blog this evening from Rebecca Burt. It’s, perfect, I would not want to change  a word.

'Let's see...an ex-beauty pageant winner...with an undergraduate degree in
Journalism...who does not believe in global warming...who does believe a
woman should have no control over her own body and for 9 months should
be viewed as nothing more than a baby container...who's main attributes
seem to be stubbornness and vicious competiveness... who has had next to
no experience in government...who has a currently very messy family
situation  has a 17 year old daughter who is unwed and pregnant and is
facing investigation for using her political office to smear her
ex-brother-in-law and get him fired (he is in a custody battle with her
sister)...who seems to be in bed with big oil...who is running for
VP...whose running mate is 72 and is a cancer survivor...who has no
foreign policy background and in fact has only been out of the country
twice...who may become President of the country I love at a time when
it faces the most complex foreign policy issues, economic issues and
domestic issues it has in decades...Why does this sound like a totally
unbelievably bad novel???? I for one am terrified and cannot
understand what Mr. McCain was thinking!!!!'

Comments

[Sarah]

So Mr Flynn is terrified of Ms Palin, well now he knows how I, and the majority of the electorate feel after 3 terms of office of this rotten to the core government. Freedom, privacy, individual responsibility, justice, protection of the law, all the backbone of a democratic country, has been stripped away by intrusive laws, CCTV, con-people masquerading as environmentalists, bin police, litter police, plastic police, the soon to be army of accredited police, and not forgetting the real invisible police and council jobsworth paid to harass & bully the law abiding, oh and lets not forget all the bans implememnted, and you say you're terrified, you have that the wrong way round Mr Flynn, we're TERRIFIED!!!!!

The exorbitant taxes & greed of politicians in this country makes one weep.

One quarter of the population is actively encouraged to be dependent on welfare and another quarter dependent on the state for their living, gerrymandering on a grand scale methinks.

This government has actively destroyed a once great country, they've assured, along with the pernicious EU, that within 20/30 years, if even that long, England will cease to exist as an independent country, probably the EU will insist on it being renamed too.

Intrusiveness/snooping/inform on family, friends, neigbours that is reminscent of the Stasi, and the sheer volume of the army of enforcers employed is beyond belief, reminscent of stormtroopers harassing, bullying & intimindating law abiding people, it's a sick travesty that belongs back in the days when both the Stasi & Nazi regimes were active, unfortunately this government has seen fit to re-introduce such tactics. I'm sadden and shocked that a party that started out as the party of the working people can stoop to such levels.

So I want to congratulate you Mr Flynn, what you and your teacher/social worker/mediocre lawyers, ex-communists/trots/marxist fellow politicians set out to do you've achieved way beyond your wildest dreams, destroy the country and our way of life. All credit to you, bet you didn't believe how easy people could be deceived. And I suppose having a non-education system and brainwashing the kids also helped.

[Huw O'Sullivan]

One wonders if Sarah's english comprehension is quite up to par, Paul was quoting a contributor in full, it is the contributors statement that she is terrified of Palin and who detailed the messy family situation.
But to be honest we cannot expect much better from Americans.
I was merely surprised that Paul of all people feels that McCain's age should be a factor as well as the fact that he seems to think it matters which party gets the whitehouse, when history clearly shows it does not.

Sarah does realise that Paul represents a Welsh constituency not an English one ... doesn't she?

England is not an independent country it is if perhaps, the only willing member, a member state of the UK.
English people often forget that there is supposed to be a difference.
Of course, given the lack of choice every other member state has had, goes far to explaining why English people have such trouble with the concept of the EU, cannot quite get their heads around the voluntary nature of membership.

One does also have to wonder exactly what problem Sarah has with teachers and social workers, especially that she should rate them on a par with only mediochre lawyers, presumably the good ones have all been retained by various ex tory mp's.

I know life can be hard when you're convinced everyone is out to get you Sarah, but try looking up paranoia in any dictionary, then seek therapy.

[paulflynn]

It's not possible to take Sarah's wail seriously. Is it meant to be a caricature of a tortured right winger who has gone over the edge?

Sarah's picture of Britain bears no resemblance to life in the best country in the world - with the possible rivals only in Scandanavia.
The prospect of someone who believes in creationism with her finger on he nuclear trigger frightens me.

Life in Britain is richer and more liberated than the world I knew as a child especially to all minorities and the female majority. How can anyone have such a jaundiced, twisted view of a country at peace with a society that is fairer and more just than any time in our history?

Anger management a possibility Sarah?

[paulflynn]

It's not just the age Huw.

McCain is also a cancer survivor and suffered after his experiences as a POW. His life expectancy for an insurance policy would sadly not be a long one. This is worrying for someone who aspires to the most important political job in the world. The one who decides on global warming and war. The possibility of President Palin is real and alarming.

[Sarah]

Fair comment, I did misread it, I thought it was Flynn's article, and I'll hold my hands up to it. But Sarah certainly does understand that he represents a Welsh constituency. But that doesn't detract from what I posted, Flynn represents the breed of politician that makes up Labour, unless he's suddenly changed alliegance? I take it Wales, apart from their regional assemby, is still subject to diktats from Westminster, because to be frank I don't bother to keep up with what Wales are doing, too interested in trying to avoid the enforcers and assorted police employed by Labour.

And yes, I'm quite lucid on the point that England is still, for now, part of the UK. Unfortunately, unlike Wales & Scotland we haven't been given the choice for our own Assemby or Parliament, so no we just subsidise others.

As to the statement that the English have trouble with the concept of the EU and can't get their heads around the voluntary nature of membership leads me to the conclusion that Huw, must have been in a solitary part of Wales where they have no communications when Labour refused the electorate a promised referendum on further integration into this dangerous organisation.

I don't think that Huw, has a clue as to the true nature of the beast that is the EU, but he will find out one day when either Labour or the Tories put each and every one of us firmly in its grip, Huw, might not care about leaving legacy like this to his children/grandchildren, but I certainly do, and if that makes me an ignorant English woman in Huw's eyes than so be it.

As to the assertion Sarah needs therapy, that's an interesting thought, but not for paranoia, no definitely not that, paranoia is indicative of suffering from delusions, what's happened under Nulab is by no means delusional, but fact, I suggest Huw looks it up, it's defined in the dictionary,as truth & reality, something Huw, seems totally removed from.

Why is it that many posters from other parts of the UK nearly always descend into being detrimental about the English. I can only put it down to insecurity, maybe a good therapist would help Huw overcome his insecurities.

[Huw O'Sullivan]

If you believe Paul is an example of New Labour then that is delusional.
Paul is very much not a new labour politician which has led to my long running pleading with him to abandon that tory by any other name party.

People are detrimental about the English for the reasons already mentioned.
You say the English have no assembly of their own, they do and always have had, it is called parliament, the westminster you referred to, in which English MP's outnumber by an overwhelming majority the representatives of all the other member states of the UK, this is how it was conceived and is the only form of democracy the English can handle, one where they are certain of the majority on all things, in a union in which none of the other members had any choice whatsoever.

In terms of the EU, your elected governments for decades have chosen what level of interaction with the EU this country has, if you consider that to be something you have no control over, then I have to wonder who on earth you have been voting for.
Welsh coal previously and Scottish oil to this day subsidise England. We all understand however that the English have difficulty with paying for goods taken.

New Labour offered a referendum on the European constitution only, this could not happen when it failed to be passed in other member states.
Opportunists attempted to pretend that what was next put forward was simply the constitution by another name, a concept perhaps only the British could accomodate having little understanding of what is entailed in a constitution , when they are constantly being told that they have an unwritten one.

You are absolutely correct however when you say that Wales does still suffer from the diktats of Westminster and the sooner that ends the better for Wales.
Perhaps then England can attain its greatest wish, to become the mini-me of the US it so clearly wishes to be. Unlike the EU they will not have an equal say in matters but for a country that so distrusts and mislikes equality, they will undoubtedly understand and prefer the master, servant relationship even if this time around they are not the masters.

[Sarah]

Paul, I don't mean to come across as casting asperions, unlike yourself, but are you deluded, you actually think that being the most spied on nation in the western world, with thousands of enforcers pounding the streets, looking for selective people to pounce on to take their 'photo, issue on the on-the-spot fines, bin police employed to make sure someone doesn't put a carrot in the paper bin, victims of crime treated worse than the criminals, and now Frau Smith's latest whizz, accredited police, where anyone can PAY the government for a badge, please don't say they'll be vetted, it'd be a farcical statement, I could go on but there isn't enough room on here to list all the damge this government has done to our freedom & privacy. So please do point out what makes for a richer and more liberated Britain, please do spell out which parts are richer and more liberated? Ah I know, the Houses of Parliament.

What really frightens me is that knowing Labour are on the way out what they're going to for an encore before they're booted out. But I don't suppose that bothers you Paul, that promised referendum on the 'Not the Constitution' Lisbon Treaty, your illustrious leader denied the electorate will ensure whoever sits in the Houses of Parliament will have no power whatsoever, all they will be is Janitors answerable to Brussels, until those in Brussels decide to install their own people, surely you realised this Paul.

And please don't presume you know my political affiliations, all that does is make you sound a like typical politician unable to face the truth of the damage inflicted.

It would be helpful if you post just what we are allowed to do, what we can eat, what we can throw away, where we can go, what we can say on your blog. I mean there's thousands of EU Directives, rules & regs on what we can't do, but none on what we can. P

[Jolly Roger]

Huw criticises Sarah's comprehension,
And completely misses her intention,
Just to put in simple words,
Her opinion of the Labour turds,
Who have, since their election,
Been a truly distorted reflection,
Of any socialist wish to serve the Nation.
After all this prudence, we've got inflation.

Sarah's comprehensive list,
Denotes that, with which, we are so off pissed.
Labour has squeezed our pips so hard,
Our squeaks have become rather scarred.
Taxed and oppressed beyond belief.
We're victims of a NuLabour thief.
Of course, none of this applies to Paul,
He's an Welsh MP after all.

Inflation-proof pension and wages too.
Yet the poor just got treated as if they were poo.
But still, when election time eventually comes.
NuLabour will be thrown out on their bums.
And by the way Huw, Paul's resident stoker.
What's with the lawyers, "mediochre"?
You'll have to tell me, whether or not,
They only come halfway up from Splott.

If by chance Huw, you're lost again.
Just ask Paul, he'll explain.

[Jolly Roger]

I've just noticed your reply, Paul, to Sarah's outlining,
Of our country where many of us are whinging and whining.
You say that this place is "richer and liberated".
Where's that then Paul, I've been here, not oblated.
I must have missed it, since NuLabour's in,
My money's worth less than it's ever been.

I repeat my offer, made previously before.
Try living a month as 'officially poor'.
I've no doubt you'll find a reason not to.
But many of us have simply got to.
To provide the funds to keep such as you,
Snouting the trough, as so many do.
"Richer and Liberated"? You've got a nerve.
Oh, sorry, forgot, it's NuLabour you serve.

[Sarah]

Firstly I think you forget the number of Scottish MPs that vote for what England gets, and probably Wales, as stated don't keep up on Wales, but the English & Welsh can't vote for anything in scotland. But I'm almost certain you think this is just desserts for the uppity English.

One of the first acts of destruction of Blair & Nulab was the breaking up of the UK, which I presume you agreed with. I didn't at the time, but after being denigrated so much by the Scottish & Welsh it can't come quick enough for me, but in saying that it'll make no difference because the EU will rule us all, which you are more than willing to accept, you'll accept being an EU citizen but totally resent being linked with the English as part of the UK. As to the mini-me of the US and we won't have a say, do you honestly and truthfully think you have a say in the EU, that's one of the most laughable things I've heard, we don't have much say now, never really have had, and we certainly won't have any say at all once the aim has been achieved of a Superstate. The Constitution only, so are you saying that Viscard & many other EU members are liars when they stated the Libson Treaty is 99% identical to the rejected Constitution, the 1% they removed was the anthem.

You state that we've had decades of elected governments that has chosen what level of interaction the country has with the EU. Yes, that's true, but it's also true that the majority of people don't realise, probably still don't, the lies and propaganda, the biggest from what I gather from Ted Heath, then we had Major, then the snake Blair and the same lies are still being told by Brown and politicians of all political colours, you can't put a fag paper between all three main parties where the EU is concerned. I know you're not partial to me because I'm English but please don't try and insinuate that I'm some kind of idiot by saying who have you been voting for. I can only be accused of believing that the politicians I voted for were honest and had integrity, because every one to a man/woman has always denied that full integration to a Superstate was the aim, they even now deny that 80% of laws and thousands of directives are issued from Brussels, once the Lison Treaty comes into effect that'll be 90% with the other 10% relinquished over a period of time. It might be good for Wales, being a little country they get good subsidies from the EU, but like Ireland will find our soon enough the subsidies will soon dry up.

I'm not going to argue the point with youany more on the EU you are absolutely certain it's a great entity, whereas I firmly believe it's one of the most dangerous, undemocratic organisation ever to be formed. So I suggest we just agree to differ on this.

I'm just glad I don't have the same bias against the Welsh as you have towards the English, I'd hate to be that petty and nasty.

[Huw O'Sullivan]

The constitution was to have been one single document to replace the numerous treaties that have been brought in, amended and adjusted over the years to take account of changing conditions and expansion.
The constitution was rejected but the conditions have changed and expansion has happened and so we have had to fall back on further treaties and amendments to cover these realities.
So instead of being on the ball and with a clear document to work from we are having to make do and mend.
So yes, you got it in one, the Lisbon treaty is not a constitution and is not a subtle variation on the consitution, its a kludge so the whole EU does not grind to a halt undoing the careful work and diplomacy of decades.

When you talk about Scottish MP's voting on what England gets you are absolutely correct. What you fail to grasp is that if every Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MP voted for something for England they would be less than 10% of the votes in parliament and are therefore irrelevant, it is whatever English MP's vote for that will happen with Scots or anyone else having no influence unless the English are split down the middle.

Again the EU is optional,
for everyone but the English, the UK was not.

Yes every member state of the EU has a say, what they cannot do is ride roughshod over the rest of the EU. This seems to be the bit that upsets the English as their only understanding of a democratic union is one in which they alone make any final decisions and everyone else has to abide by them, this understanding of democracy is probably going to have to change or you will find yourself in the position where the US makes the decisions for you.

I am glad you brought up Ireland, it is true EU aid will become less and less now that it has done its job and Ireland has become a net contributor.
This was the point and purpose of the aid,
it has been a tragedy for Wales that it was dependent on Westminster to secure EU aid for it which largely was let slide or Wales could now be on its way to having the same economic success that Ireland has achieved.

The EU has many flaws, it is fundamentally a capitalist trading bloc.
The aid to poorer countries, is based on the simple understanding that if you want to be able to trade with a country it needs to have reached a level of prosperity that it can afford what you have to sell.

As well as lubricating the wheels of trade the EU does at least make a pretence of balance by bringing in some things to protect ordinary workers.
In general it is these that the British government regularly opts out of.

The EU is being held back from becoming properly democratic due to the member nations unwillingness to put their faith in democracy and preferring to cling to the commissioner system, one of the greatest opponents being of course the British government.

Lastly you claim I have bias against the English, and you are right, but not for petty or nasty reasons but for the reasons I have clearly stated. Typically it only shows when I have to speak or otherwise communicate with a particularly arrogant and or ignorant example.
As with all the anti EU English of your ilk, your fundamental problems with the EU are in fact problems you have with your own government.
You feel like you have no say in the EU, your government, that you elect, that is overwhelmingly English is the body by which you exercise your say in Europe.
You feel they should consult you more, that is not the fault of the EU that is the choice of your democratically elected governments over the past decades and yet these parties keep getting elected, democratically, by the English.
Perhaps you are simply failing to understand the nature of democracy and presumably for the classic reasons I have attributed to the English, what you personally want is not happening, ergo it cannot possibly be democracy as you understand it.

I recommend you learn the true nature of democracy and learn it fast before you are left to the fate of being a mere client state of the US, perhaps with all the privileges of Puerto Rico, or perhaps with all the gratitude they showed to Iraq.

The truth is England is at a crossroads, it can be independent and an equal member in Europe or it can slavishly fawn over the US and hope for some crumbs from the table when their master is feeling generous.
To make the right choice, the English will need to understand who they are without having to fall back on how they relate to others, but having the confidence to define themselves by themselves alone.

I am fairly confident however that if people like yourself are in fact representative of the majority of the English, then you would choose lackey over partner any day of the week, month of the year or decade of the century as you simply do not understand any type of relationship that is not dominant/submissive.
I guess public schools and nannies have left an indelible mark on the English psyche.

[Stephen]

Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?

Seriously though, I think that there are one or two issues Rebecca Burt raised that you should have wanted to change, Paul. Or maybe you could elaborate for that matter a 17 year old daughter who is 'unwed' and pregnant (shock, horror!) should in any way disqualify Ms Palin from running as the US Vice President? Why should the fact that she is an 'ex-beauty pageant winner' be of any account?

Ms Palin's political background & beliefs and her lack of experience are a different manner, but I am surprised to find you endorsing Ms Burt's astonishingly offensive critique of her 'very messy family situation'. Unless of course the two of you really think that a mother's place is in the home.

[Kevin Ward]

Re: Richard Brunstrom. "The person who announced his departure was mistaken."
And that person would be? Err... Richard Brunstrom in a BBC Radio Wales interview!

[paulflynn]

This blog seems to hold a fascination or insomniacs or shiftworkers because of the comments that come in from midnight and 5.00 a.m.

Before a mythology is built up about Sarah Palin 's 'messy' home life, I understand this to mean the allegation of corruptly using her influence to help her family in a dispute and the arrest of her husband for drunken driving. The latter, in a perfect world, should not be her responsibility. But that is not how politics work. There is guilt by association in the eyes of the voters. After all, this woman has a very strong chance of becoming president. This will directly effect us. The second Gulf War and UK's involvement would have been avoided if Bush had lost last time. The war was the neo-cons agenda. Mrs Palin is a global warming denier. This could be potentially catastrophic for the world if she becomes president.

Of course her daughter's pregnancy is not the issue.

[west2]

Pual FLynn wrote
"This is worrying for someone who aspires to the most important political job in the world. The one who decides on global warming and war. The possibility of President Palin is real and alarming."
and later
"Palin is a global warming denier. "

The possibility of someone who understands life, it's trials and tribulations and is succesful despite all this, is worrying? How so?

Global Warming Denier? How much 'global warming' has there been this centuary? It would seem there hasn't been any. So is Mrs Palin a denier or a realist?

west
----

[patrick]

Sarah
"I'm just glad I don't have the same bias against the Welsh as you have towards the English, I'd hate to be that petty and nasty."

It would have been a helpful start if Wales could have been represented on the Union Jack.The union involving Wales apparently.

It might have helped if your decendents had not tried so hard to destroy the Welsh culture.
Maybe thinking before beating school children for the audacity of speaking their own language might have helped too.

If you have any time left after reading the Daily mail ,read up on ,take your pick,
try Welsh, Scottish or Irish history then come back and we can have a debate.

[Stephen]

Paul, I agree with your response to my comment, and in particular I appreciate the fact that you have reconsidered Ms Burt's comment. I'm pleased to see you have now edited out the 'messy family' element I referred to which led me to find it 'astonishingly offensive' from your post, from Ms Burt's original posted comment and indeed from my own.

I'm making that point since otherwise people might think my disgust somewhat over the top, particularly since you didn't acknowledge the action you'd taken. I think now you might want to amend that 'perfect, I wouldn't want to change a word' from your OP, since you patently have.

[Huw O'Sullivan]

Revolt's fruits

Paul you say the good news of the tax rebate
will be ignored or derided and yet you must know that it would rightly be derided.

A simple bit of stupidity was contained in Brown's last budget as chancellor which lowered the taxes for everyone except those on quite low incomes who ended up paying more and apparently to fund a tax cut for people who were better off than they were
.
Rather than employ a real fix, an awkward and temporary fix was eventually put in place for 1 year only which was not even implemented immediately but delayed until this month, despite the fact that the people who could least afford to be paying more tax were doing so from April.
Perhaps a bit of an american idea here in thinking that people would be impressed by getting a lump sum and forget that this was made up of the extra taxes they had struggled to pay since April.
It is of course a relatively minor issue, but it is not one that shows the government in a good light, not the initial error, not the ludicrous temporary fix.
Hopefully the backbenchers will ensure that this situation is permanently resolved by next budget or is the hope that people will just forget?

[Carlos]

If AlGore won the elections who knows what would have happened. I reckon the war on Iraq would have happened anyway especially with the likes of the Clintons probably having a say on Al Gore's foreign policy. Remember under whose administration was Serbia bombed over what was an entirely domestic matter for the latter country.

[Carlos]

In addition PaulFlynn the UK has more freedoms?? Why has the UK got more CCTVs than the rest of the world combined. Since June 1997 over 20,000 new laws many of which curb freedoms have been passed. The antiterror laws? Ban on protests in Parliament square? Racial hatred laws which mostly get so misinterpreted that they end up curbing free speech? Seems a lot of things you have missed out Mr Flynn.

[Carlos]

And of course MrFlynn and Huw you have both failed to answer Sarah's excellent first post.

[Carlos]

About environmentalism PaulFlynn and Huw I suggest you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odgk1zywkJA

[PaulFlynn]

Sarah's first post was a Daily Mail rant.

Anyone whose had their views distorted by the tabloids becomes incapable of reasoning. They live in a world of invented bogeymen out to plunder their secrets. What's wrong with CCTV cameras? There is a big demand for them in areas of high crime. They detect crime. What's wrong with that?

All the rest are wild exaggerations.

[west2]

Paul Flynn wrote
"What's wrong with CCTV cameras?"

They merely record events. They do not intervene. They are a minimal deterent. They are prone to intermitant faults at sometimes crucial times. They do not 'know' what is normal or abnormal for an area. They do not interact with the local residents.

All this and not even a word on civil liberities or whether there are any adverse psychological affects associated with anonymous 'watching' of people. Has this been studied?

west
----

[west2]

Just to add to my comment 'they are a minimal deterent'

From the conclusion of the 2005 Home Office report - The impact of CCTV: fourteen case studies.

"This report explored the impact of CCTV on crime and the fear of crime in fourteen individual systems. Each CCTV system displayed unique characteristics, which highlights the complexity in determining how CCTV operates as a single entity. Whilst most systems revealed little overall effect on crime levels, there were a number of small-scale impacts that were explored. Some of these represent successes, which are worthy of comment."

To enphasise "Little overall effect" though some "small-scale impacts"

west
----

[PaulFlynn]

You have not answered the question. What's the problem. Only the paranoid, the deluded or criminal would object. Who has been harmed by them?

[west2]

Hopefully this refers to the CCTV question...

Paul FLynn wrote:
"You have not answered the question. What's the problem"

What are you using them for? To make an impact on crime levels? If so then they are not a 'magic bullit'. There are other ways, perhaps more effective ways, of dealing with crime.

Paul Flynn wrote:
" Only the paranoid, the deluded or criminal would object. "

Many people have rational objections to there use. You have produced little in the way of evidence as to their effectiveness.

Paul Flynn wrote:
"Who has been harmed by them?"

What does this mean? Physicaly attacked? Wrongly accused as the result of CCTV evidence?

Not sure what your argument in favour of CCTV amounts to? Should we have telescreens in every home because " Only the paranoid, the deluded or criminal would object. "?

west
----

[PaulFlynn]

These are very weak arguments. Today, a CCTV camera answered the mystery of who killed the Osbaston family. The police might have wasted time looking for the killer. CCTV cameras have provided identification on thousands of other crimes.

Would you like stop shopkeepers installing them? What about freedom to protect and to deter?

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

[west2]

Paul Flynn wrote:-

"WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?"

No problem, just discussing the issue.

And continued:-
"These are very weak arguments".
If the intention is to reduce crime then the evidence suggests they are not effective. You have not made any supported argument that they are.

Then wrote:-
"Today, a CCTV camera answered the mystery of who killed the Osbaston family. The police might have wasted time looking for the killer."

The police may have wasted time looking for the killer, though there seems to have been enough forensic evidence anyway. The question is still unanswered, at this time, as the BBC suggest that the person on the CCTV maybe the father. It does seem quite likely, though even here an intepretation is required.

Paul Flynn went on to say:
"CCTV cameras have provided identification on thousands of other crimes."

Both this and your previous comments make my point. CCTV did not prevent the crime, it merely helped solve it after the fact. That was the reason for my question, what is your intention in using CCTV?

If your intention is to discover who did it, then it all seems a bit late since a crime has already been committed.

If your intention is to ensure the crime is not committed in the first place (crime prevention/reduction) then you have produced no evidence that they can effectively reduce crime or perhaps you can point to that evidence?

west
----

[Sarah]

Patrick, appears to want to go back to the year dot for blaming everything on the English, how sad, I can't help but feel sympathy for these kind of people. By all means have your rant at the English, it means bugger all to me, couldn't care one iota if the Welsh, Scottish, Irish dislike me, but for heavens sake talk about NOW not hundreds of years ago, I wasn't responsible for anything that happened then, it isn't my fault if you think the English are superior to anyone else, I don't think like that, but obviously from your post you do. As to the flag, has it occurred to you I didn't design it, I wasn't even a dot on the horizon then.

Huw, I told you I don't intend to debate the EU with you anymore, absolute waste of time when talking to people of your ILK who has been indoctrinated into believing what a wonderful, democratic organisation the EU is. You have a warped view of democracy.

Like Patrick you really have an inborn hatred of the English, and as I said to Patrick, it ISN'T MY FAULT if you believe the English are superior yourselves. But your attitudes doesn't surprise me the English have been blamed for all ills of the world, we're used to it. Obviously from yours and Patrick's rants you no doubt have insecurity issues and as advised in a previous post therapy would be a good start.

Paul, only seems to have mentioned CCTV cameras, the rest he seems to think was an invention or taken straight from the daily Mail. Fortunately we're not all like politicians, we have to live with the mess this ramshackle bunch have deliberately created, the same as Blair has caused division, distrust and outright hatred among the peoples of Wales, scotland, Ireland & Wales, is this something Nulab and Mr Flynn is proud of.

You didn't mention where Britain is Richer & more Liberal Paul, I've been thinking about that, and yes you're right, and it starts with the politicians who are richer than ever before, courtesy of the taxpayer, and criminals who raking it in as never before because the police are too busy chasing targets, and of course the councils/government are richer with all the on-the-spot fines for every mortal thing, council tax, and let's not forget the huge revenue raising speed cameras yes I'd call that richer, but not for the people.

Libertarian, yes I see what you mean here, teenage pregnacies, the worst in Europe, but Nulabs sex education is doing wonders, every time they introduce another intiative it gets worse, and the new one, sex education for 4 year olds, it's a sick & perverted initiative, who has the government got advising them on these issues, paedophiles. And you didn't mention the knife/gun crime rife in cities across the country or was that conveniently forgotten. So yes, Britain is a richer & more libertarian place, only not for ordinary working people.

But what can one expect a Guardianista.

[Jolly Roger]

Oh come on Paul, you can do better.
There's no "wild exaggerations" in Sarah's letter?
Surveilled by cameras every day.
Council Jobsworths snooping, paid with Government pay.
Exhorbitant tax? Am I a liar?
I'm out of the frying pan into the fire.
Do you deny Politicians are greedy?
Do you claim that they are concerned about the poor and needy?

The challenge stands again, at risk of a bore.
Come and live a month as 'officially poor'.
Then you'd see that Sarah's protestations,
Are far from being "wild exaggerations".
But no, you don't even answer the plea.
You've probably ate too much for your tea.
But out here in the real world,
NuLab's flag is tightly furled.

Your slavish devotion and attempts at spin,
Just show the state your party's in.
Now reduced to knee-jerk gestures,
Hoping to appeal to house investors.
Let's just check the re-possession figure.
Since Labour's arrival they've simply got bigger.
So keep it up Paul, spinmeister extreme.
There are many who have been left outside of the dream.

[patrick]

Sarah
Do you write for the Daily Mail?

[Sarah]

Ah I see one of my posts has disappeared, wonder if it could be that I had the gall to tackle Huw & Patrick about their denigration of the English, Flynn didn't have the same such qualms when they were dishing it out to me. I also set out some aspects of his richer & more libertarian claim, he no doubt recognised the truth in them and didn't want to embarrass himself by letting posters see this truth.

Couldn't waffle your way out of the truth huh Paul.

Still shouldn't be surprised, typical politician and Guardianista.

[paulflynn]

SARAH, NONE OF YOUR POSTS HAVE BEEN DELETED.

FOLLOW THE CHEVRONS TO THE SECOND PAGE

[Huw O'Sullivan]

Sarah probably should take a lesson from this but is unlikely to do so.

In her first post, she failed to read and comprehend Paul's blog properly and thought what he quoted and stated he was quoting was something he had written himself.
Later being utterly opposed to the voluntary European union but not understanding why anyone would dislike the imposed and decidedly non-voluntary United Kingdom.

Later again falls back to the Blair argument of wanting to draw a line under everything as if the present exists in splendid isolation from the past.

Then in the paroxysms of paranoid frenzy accuses Paul of deleting her diatribes because she has not mastered the ability to check the next page.

Will she learn a lesson from all this?
Will she finally come to understand that much of what she finds upsetting and often incomprehensible is because she hasn't actually understood what people are talking about, or has half heard, misheard or is being actively misled by others who profit from stoking her random passions?

Will she come to grips with the fact that people are not actually out to get her, that everyone is not ganging up on her to make her life miserable. That she is not in fact being silenced or prevented from speaking?

Will she finally get over what is at the end of the day the lazy, moaning, whining, whinging, paranoid attitude of victimhood, determined that she is being ripped off in every way possible, certain that everyone and everything is ranged against her and being utterly heartbroken and convinced of the unfairness of it all if she sees anyone receiving as much as one penny more than she gets from any source whatsoever, whether through government or private business.

In other words, what is generally understood to be the normal attitude of the English.

Believe me Sarah, while I do dislike the English in generality I do not hate them.
While I am having a go at you for your small mindedness, your arrogance and your ignorance, I don't have anything particularly against you and hope you have a wonderful life, with loved ones and the necessities as well as a reasonable selection of the luxuries.

No one has it in for you, no one is trying to spoil your day or your life, your family or your country.
Everyone has the best interests of the people who inhabit this island at heart,
we simply disagree with you and quite frankly if you had the necessary information, if you had ever felt the need to find out the necessary information, you would probably disagree with you too.

[paulflynn]

Thank you, Huw for that splendid message to Sarah. Perhaps we need a new charity for the victims of tabloid manipulation/

[Sarah]

Posts not deleted - Apologies Paul, which I also posted on anothere thread.

Ah Huw, by referring to my mistake on the first post you show your complete and utter dislike and ignorance, I've already admitted to my error to that or doesn't that satisfy you, do you want to draw English blood to make you feel better.

As to the rest of your post it doesn't merit a reply, all you can do is denigrate and TRY to humiliate, sadly Huw, you fail miserably. In fact you show yourself up for the bigot you are, who knows nothing and if your posts are anything to go by, never will.

[Sarah]

Paul, I'd heard that you weren't a nice person, but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but after reading your congratulatory post to Huw, I realise you're not a nice person, but a despicable man, who for a politican should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.

I thank God that you represent Wales and not England.

And please will you and your henchmen Huw & Patrick please get a new catch phrase other than Right Wing Daily Mail readers, it's not only boring it's downright chidlish, a 'supposedly' intelligent politican should be above such pettiness. But as we've all found out to our cost the politicans now governing us do not have a working brain cell between them. And I doubt Huw has even one brain cell that works, probably gets all his information from the Guardian.

[political umpire]

"It’s, perfect, I would not want to change a word."

Ah, but you certainly did change some words, didn't you? At least Stephen has pointed this out in his excellent post on this post, which anyone interested in Mr Flynn's intellectual honesty (ie lack thereof) should read

[Huw O'Sullivan]

You rather miss the point Sarah.
You flew off the handle and had to have it pointed out that you had not understood the situation.
Indeed you apologised for your error, nothing I said depends on you not having done so or ignores the fact that you did.

It is the fact that you let slip your spleen without actually understanding the situation is what I was pointing out and that you do it repeatedly.
Over and over and over again.
Once people take the trouble to correct you, you and if you cannot ignore the evidence then you apologise as if it is just one of those things that happens.

I am suggesting, that perhaps, in future, you try to determine that you do in fact understand the situation BEFORE going off on one. That way people won't have to point out your errors and you won't have to apologise and perhaps just perhaps, rational debate could occur.

I make no efforts to humiliate you Sarah, I feel you achieve that result under your own steam.

Is a henchman a paid position?

Lastly and it's not very important but
I do not recall making a single reference to any newspaper at all in any of the comments on this piece of Paul's, and certainly not
"Right Wing Daily Mail readers" so I fail to understand how I would need a new catchphrase.

Or is this yet another example of you letting rip in error?

[paulflynn]

Yes political umpire, someone tried to stir up controversy on a matter unsuitable to this blog. S/He did this as a result of a malicious mis-interpretation of an innocent remark. We have our standards. As the mischievious attack was deleted, in fairness the few words that it was based on were also deleted. This is the fairest way to deal with those who respect no boundaries for political venom.

[paulflynn]

Sarah you are bordering on pointless abuse. There are plenty of bottom feeder sites that consist of little else. it is a sign of desperation as your arguments have been very effectively demolished by Patrick and Huw. Many thanks to both.

[Sarah]

Paul,

I was always under the impression that politicians were supposed to be fair and unbiased, obviously the majority of the electorate know that to be a big porky, and you re-inforce this the way you seem to fall over yourself condoning Huw & Patrick's tirades. You seem to have completely skimmed over the abuse dished out by Huw & Patrick, well Huw mostly, the more I disagree with him the more abusive he gets. What do you and the other 2 Muskateers want, do you want us to all be Comrades in arms, I don't know if you're aware of it but democracy doesn't work like that, and I'm not talking Nulabs kind of democracy here.

Does it not occur to you three Muskateers that people have DIFFERENT opinions, and those opinions cannot be swayed by such abusive rants.

I actually told Huw, that I wouldn't debate with him anymore but still he has to stick his oar in. Do the decent thing Paul, and tell your sidekick to TRY being polite and less abusive to people who don't have the same opinions as him. Patrick he's either here nor there as far as I'm concerned, he just follows on from Huw. Not a free thinker.

For my part I have also been abusive, but only in retaliation, something I regret, I should never have descended to the level of yourself, Huw & Patrick, but will not be doing so again. If the mainstay of debate of Paul, Huw & Patrick is bias and abuse, that's something I have no control over, but I'll do as I should have done in the first place, totally ignore.

[PaulFlynn]

Sadly I have never met any of these people you called my 'sidekicks'. Your three recent comments will remain on the site. Two of them amount to little more than abusive rants. I always try to be fair in deleting only the stuff that is beneath this site's high standards as the thinking person's blog.

Thanks for your contributions. I sense you are leaving us.

[political umpire]

Contribution deleted on an exhausted subject

[Dawn Brosnan]

Sarah, what makes you think a politician should be unbiased? Surely that's a Judges job? People vote for Politicians and their parties/policies precisely because of their bias.

From what I have observed from reading Pauls blogg I note that he is rightly positively biased in favour of:

1) Social justice and Civil liberties.
2) The health and wealth of the UK and the worlds population in general.
3) The (critical) good health of this planet and yes that of necessity includes raising awareness of Global warming.
4) Sound, moral (and proven to be productivity raising) employment rights, such as those proposed by Europe (and rejected by successive UK governments at the behest of Business' squeal that we can't affort it when it fact it would improve our productivity, much to our shame).

Now as an English/Welsh Brit who wants to retain the 'British' (whatever that is) identity I am starting to worry that said identity is starting to mean fearful, paranoid, social and ecologically conscience-free, selfish, greedy, self-serving, opportunist, whingers. In short readers of a minor angsts raising denialist rightwing rag.

If I want to be treated as a human being, not a 'collateral damage' statistic or a bombworthy threat to the US, I'd better live in Pinko Europe, because only there do I or my rights count.

If I want to take time off work because I am sick and unable to work, and thats apart from infecting work colleagues, I'd best live in Europe, because the UK works harder than the rest of Europe, but it's 'workers' are afraid to take needed time off. Now guess who's productivity is best; that's right - long standing EU member states such as Germany who put that man before the economic machine.

A sign of a mature and healthy civilisation is that it can look after it's weakest members and benefit from doing so. From what I can see that is to be found in Europe. The UK used to have those ideals too, but it's losing ground a little due to the cultural and overt influence from 'over the pond'.

Sticking together makes us strong. Not cliche but fact. Treating people humanely and not as work units also bears superior fruit, another fact.

I think we can afford to take our uniqueness to Europe, spice it up with some European social legislation which like all legislation will be tailored to a better fit over time, and drop our baggage and fear of being overwhelmed.

Do we cling to the tails of Creationist, Global Warming denying, A womans right to choose denying, gun toting, paranoid and panicing child, or would we be be better off playing with the warm hearted but still business savvy adults?

I know what my choice is.

You have my sympathy Sarah. Have another think about what your fears really are and where they spring from. You'll feel better. :)

BTW Huw is nobodies 'sidekick'.

[Ian]

Is it me or is the UK media spending more time on the US pre-election action than the rest of the democratic elections in the world combined?
I realise the significance of the US to the rest of the world but they are still only 5% of the global population.

[Sarah]

Dawn,

I agree with justice, but sadly for the law abiding it has taken a downward turn, and will be further eroded once the EUs new diktat is enforced. Britons tried abroad in their abscence will be deported from the UK to serve their sentences even if they don't know they've been charged. Plus this will apply to crimes ranging from murder, rape and to others such as xenophobia, which isn't recognised in British law. The lamentable Jack Straw has given his approval to extradition laws because they will 'improve mutual trust' for some reason a fair trail and justice doesn't seem to matter anymore. How can they equate charging someone that doesn't even know if they've committed an offence, let alone sentcing them, this isn't justice, but kangaroo courts, what's happended to 'innocent until proven guilt'. But once again it will only be the law abidng that's affected. And to be truthful I'd be appalled to know that Paul, backed this.

As to social justice, well that's really another way of saying let's take from the rich and middle classes to give to the poor, but without the rich companies the poor wouldn't have employment. the left, especially the well to do lefties like Polly Toynbee, equate social justice with every being equal and having the same, as long as they have more. More communist than social justice. No, I'm not rich or middle class, but I don't believe it's my God given right to be subsidised by those who are fortunate to have money. But I do think it's obscene that big corporations like the pharmaceutical companies earn enormous profits on the backs of sick people and dubious science, but no-one seems to be bothered by this, in fact many politicians/organisations accept grants from them.

You state that we should all be sticking together, quite agree, so why is it that many in Scotland & Wales are chomping at the bit to be free from England? I realise many from these countries have big issues about the English, dating back hundreds of years. But I cannot understand why they'd rather be an EU citizen than be associated with the English, it really baffles me. For my part I will never call myself an EU citizen no matter what the establishment say.

To America, first off I don't believe we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan, but I'm not an American hater and I fail to understand why the left are so intent on doing them down. What also strikes me about the left is that they jump up and down over American internvention but are stangely silent over Russia invading Georgia.

As to Global warming, here yourself and others have just dismissed me as a right wing skeptic, not so, I've looked at many reports for and against and what convinced me this is a fasionable cause for those with a vested interest was a report that was issued, (forget the name at the moment, will find it out) where many respected scientists asked for their names to be removed from it because it wasn't a true account of what had been found. Plus even before I researched it I was of the mind that the climate is a natural phenonomen, and all that I've read confirmed my views. And the words below go a long way to bearing it out.

It will have come to your Lordships' knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been, during the last two years greatly abated.

This affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic seas may at this time be more accessible than have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only to the advancement of science but also the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations.

Words of the President of the Royal Society to the Admiralty in London on November 20, 1817.

Plus New Orleans and many American states hit by hurricans etc., which is being blamed on GW/climate change have been subject to them for centuries

As I said I believe it's a natural phenonomen, not man-made.

On another post, which was misread, I stated that recycling was a scam, but that I didn't mind recycling. What I should have put was that I don't mind recycling but I strongly object to the bin police and being fined & even criminalised for what they call envirnomental crimes. I also missed out on something when I put about the three scams, it should have read.

Global warming, recycling & passive smoking will go down in history as three of the biggest money making scams in the 21st century.

On reading your post I thought Ah a poster that isn't abusive or condescending, that is until I reached the bottom and saw the sarcastic statement 'you have my sympathy sarah' and was another champion for Huw. But as I said in another post I should not have descend to Paul, Huw & Patrick's level and I'm going to stand by that. So if either one is expecting a rant they'll be sorely disappointed.

But I thank you for your concern all the same Dawn. Take care.

Sorry Paul, I'm not about to leave you :)

[paulflynn]

MANY, MANY THANKS DAWN.
That was a real boost, just as I was feeling that the blogosphere is being overwhelmed by yahoos whose minds have been programmed by the tabloids.

You are right. I am powerfully motivated by a set of ideals. If I was not I would not be fired up about political issues or be determined to continue battling through the next election and beyond.

The need for change is greater than ever. The world is a dangerous unjust place. We cannot leave it to the greedy, the self seeking or the ignorant to plunder the planet.

I do not know Huw but I TOO AM IMPRESSED BY HIS COMMENTS.

[Sarah]

Sorry Dawn, I missed out employment rights.

From what you posted I take it you agree with the Working Time Directive! Well I can tell you first hand what this rotten piece of legislation has done for many low paid workers, especially lorry drivers, who have lost up to £100 per week in earnings because their working week has been restricted to 48hrs, oh they could do more but once they reach a certain amount of hours they can't work for a week or two, thereby no wages. So what people earned in the weeks they could is completely cancelled out by losing up to 2 weeks wages. Many people he worked with who lost out have had trouble meeting their rent/mortgages & bills. When they lobbied their union to do something about it they found out that the union actively campaigned for the introduction of the WTD, through this approx 50 workers handed their unions cards back. My husband left and went to work for a company that's free of the unions. This kind of Directive is fine if companies/government/unions are going to make up lost earnings, but as we know this will never happen. If someone wants to work overtime why should the EU/unions or government have the right to stop them. If the WTD directive had've affected public sector workers in losing earnings the unions would've been up in arms, but for non-public sector workers, well apart from railway/car plants, they don't give stuff.

France has repealed it's 35hr week rule and people can now work whatever hours they like. But in this country politicans of all colours are just the puppets of Brussels, who don't have the sense to realise or don't care that once full integration is achieved their position will only be that of Janitors in the Houses of Parliament, answerable only to Brussels and not the electorate.

I don't know if I'm right here, apologies if I'm wrong, but if you're of the same mind as Huw & Patrick you want to break away from the UK, England in particular. As a firm believer in the EU, do you know that if Wales achieves independence that they will have to apply for membership to the EU as an independent country, just like Poland etc., the same as Scotland would hav to.

As you know I'm not an EU supporter, fanatically against in fact, I think it's a dangerous, undemocratic organisation which people will find out to their cost in years to come, of this I'm confident.

But if we all agreed on everything it'd be a very boring state of affairs :)